Oral Historian for the Imperial War Museum, prolific author and a popular speaker.

Peter Hart is a prolific author and a popular speaker; well worth finding in your local bookshop or library, and at talks presented by the Western Front Association amongst others. As Oral Historian for the Imperial War Museum, he must surely have one of the most interesting jobs in the military history world. Pete likes a joke and a beer and while deadly serious about his work he certainly does not appear to take himself very seriously. Quite refreshing…..

Tell us a bit about your day job at the IWM.

I am the Oral Historian in the Sound Archive where I have worked man and boy since 1981. I began in my late-twenties interviewing First World War veterans; then in my thirties and forties I interviewed veterans from the Second World War and Korea. Now edging reluctantly into my fifties, I’m interviewing boys in their twenties just back from service in Iraq and Afghanistan.

How relevant is the Sound Archive to historical accuracy?

The stance of authors who believe everything they read and nothing that they hear can leave their books incomplete and lacking a hard-edged focus as a direct consequence. Of course oral history has to be treated with exceptional care, indeed battle stories are often garbled under the manifold effects of stress or distance in time since the event, but it excels in the mundane, the crude realities and the minutiae that no-one in their right mind would ever write down. If we ignore oral history interviews lasting up to 20 hours that meticulously chart an individual’s progress before, during and after the war, then we miss out much of the nitty-gritty detail and ‘real’ personal feelings that are simply not recorded in diaries and letters home or in the slightly self-conscious post-war memoirs. In some cases this results in a literal sanitation of war: the crude horrors of war are omitted as unsavoury, the ‘men’ fear nothing, everyone is always dreadfully disappointed not to be going over the top and everyone always fought to the very last round before even considering surrender. All sources need to be treated with care and all authors make mistakes in judging evidence; after all in the end it is down to a matter of personal judgement whether to believe an account or not. But like the British generals of the Great War, the historian needs to use ’all arms’ at their disposal and cannot ignore any valid sources if they are to get the whole raw picture of men at war

How did you become interested in military history and who or what has been the greatest influence on your career as a writer?

I was a geek, just like many of your readers and I never grew out of it. It just seems so much more interesting than any other form of history. But I am interested in all history and can be distracted for hours by industrial archaeology – lead mines, old farm workings, just about anything.

Give yourself a shameless plug and tell us about your future projects.

I am writing a book to well and truly pull the plug on the whole mythology of Gallipoli: the Australians, the six VCs before breakfast, the narrowest of margins – the whole of the romantic claptrap. I want to call it Helles: The Real fight for Gallipoli but my publishers are wincing! My website is an on-going project and it has jokes! http://peterhartmilitary.com/index.html

How would you assess the enduring appeal of Manfred von Richtofen?

It emanates from the Americans and I don’t know why unless it is the old Snoopy and the Red Baron song! For me he was just the best all-round combination of deadly ace, formation tactician and teacher. He was I think the ace of aces.

Please give us a brief appreciation of James McCudden and Edward Mannock.

They were both working class heroes. McCudden was the supreme individual killer. Like Michael Owen before he was injured he had that absence of fear combined with a deadly array of striking skills. He even looked like him! I believe he was the top scoring Empire ace regardless of what the exaggerated ‘kill’ lists say. He was the real thing. Mannock was entirely different but equally admirable – he was a naturally nervy type, who had to conquer his personal fears, before using his considerable intelligence to become the supreme flight leader in the war. Both are forgotten heroes…

Which would you say was the most important aircraft of any type in service during the war?

The BE2C and RE8. The pilots and observers that flew these clearly obsolescent army cooperation aircraft were the real British heroes of the war. They knew what they were doing and why; they understood the appalling risks they were running to get aerial photographs and carry out artillery observation. Yet they kept on taking off, time after time after time. Many speedily suffered the deaths that haunted their worst nightmares; others lasted months until their luck finally ran out, their nerves gave way, or at last they were sent home exhausted.

In a run down cemetery not far from my house, there is a memorial to a young pilot lost over the Thames Estuary attempting to attack a flight of Gothas. Do you think we do enough to remember unsung people like him in modern times?

No, but you can’t make people ‘remember’ or ‘commemorate’. They either do or they don’t – they don’t! Football and large breasted women are potent distractions it seems.

Aside from the Great War, which other periods of military history interest you and is there is specific campaign you find most appealing?

The Peninsula War is fantastic, but I just don’t have the time now. I used to read tons of books on it but it has all faded now. I am even more interested in naval campaigns of the 18^th Century – Rodney is my hero!

What do you think of the idea to give the last Great War veteran a state funeral?

Sentimental, morbid, half baked tosh, that the veterans themselves usually rejected. The ‘last’ Boer War veteran had been long dead when another turned up some five years later in the mid-80s! It will lead to embarrassment all round. It isn’t ‘real’.

The old HMVF chestnut: What is your favourite tank?

I hate tanks! If I have a favourite it is the Sherman which besides being a delightful rhyming slang term is also the tank that alongside the artillery had to bear the brunt of taking on and beating the superior German tanks. I interviewed nearly 40 of the 2^nd Fife & Forfar Yeomanry and their stories of life in the Normandy campaign of 1944 makes you realise what brave men tank crews are…

Which battlefield location do you most enjoy visiting?

Gallipoli. It is beautiful, the fighting was extraordinary, the terrain is a challenging tangled web, trenches abound, the walking and swimming are fantastic, the drinking excellent (EFES & Raki, Mmmmmmm!) and the Turks great hosts. I also usually am being well paid by the army to act as a guide!!!

Do you think ‘popular’ history has been unkind to Douglas Haig and the other senior British generals from the Great War?

Yes. They have had their reputation traduced by scum like Alan Clark. I personally think that the overall standard of British generalship was far higher in the Great War than in our limited military involvement in the Second World War. The difficulties they faced were unparalleled in every way. It took a long time but by the end of 1918 we had a mastery of the ‘All Arms Battle’ and the most deadly army in the world that defeated the main German Army face to face. Then we demobilised and forgot the lot! I am really proud of my latest book 1918: A Very British Victory which I hope puts the record straight.

Who would you rate as the best field commander of the Second World War?

Don’t know enough to judge. I suspect it was some Russian I’ve never heard of. They had the misfortune to have to take on the bulk of the German Army, just as we had to in on the Western Front in 1914-1918.

Should you ever have the questionable good fortune to run into Jack Beckett, the founder of HMVF; he’ll want to buy you a drink. What’s your poison?

Real Ale, Cider, EFES, Raki! Not mixed!